Post by SGT. Brian Baker on Nov 6, 2009 18:26:57 GMT
Hey guys, I'm doing research paper on this topic for my english class. so far for the mistakes the German's made during WWII that cost them the war, I have...
1) Hitler should have laid off the drugs
2) Never have invaded the Soviet Union
3) Never declare war on the United States.
4) Hitler should have let his Generals dictate the battles instead of taking control of battles (I.E, Russia) and approve whatever resources they needed
5) Instead of using slaves that were sick and weak, use women in the factories.
6) At the Battle of Dunkirk, Hitler should have unleashed his Panzer Units while the Allies were retreating to the sea.
7) Unleashed his tanks at Normandy while the Allies were bogged down at the beaches.
If there is anything you guys can add, provide sources, or anything, it would be greatly appreciated. BTW, school is going good. That's why I haven't posted in a month or two.
Post by ∬: Attila Anday on Nov 6, 2009 21:07:10 GMT
So, here's what I think about it:
1) Hitler should have laid off the drugs
-> I actually can not see how this would have changed the tide of the war at all.
2) Never have invaded the Soviet Union
-> Very interesting point of view, but please concider, that Soviet Russia probably would have attacked Germany soon. A lot of Historians do represent this these.
And as the outcome of the war had shown, in 1941 Germany definetly had good chances to win in the east. In 1944, the Red Army was already way too powerfull to get beaten in the "Blitzkrieg- manner". So no, I don't agree here.
3) Never declare war on the United States.
You're probably right here. I have the very strong feeling, that without having Germany as a powerfull Allie, the Japs wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbour at all. So in my opinion, the bigger mistake was probably more the alliance with Japan.
4) Hitler should have let his Generals dictate the battles instead of taking control of battles (I.E, Russia) and approve whatever resources they needed
-> The major point for me, why the war ended with the total defeat. By the way, that's the same mistake, Stalin did throughout the start of the war in the east. But from 1942 on, he begun to let his generals do their jobs without dictating anything. And obviously, that was a good decision.
Hitlers "not-one-step-back" tactic was absoluetely senseless. It only led to the famous, big pockets like Stalingrad, Korsun or Falaise in the west.
5) Instead of using slaves that were sick and weak, use women in the factories.
-> Who told you, that women didn't work in the factories?
6) At the Battle of Dunkirk, Hitler should have unleashed his Panzer Units while the Allies were retreating to the sea.
-> That's definetly right. Because of this stupid order, 350 000 soldiers of the BEF could get shipped back to England (and came back 4 years later ). I think nobody will ever be able to completely understand that order.
7) Unleashed his tanks at Normandy while the Allies were bogged down at the beaches.
-> I just had a discussion about this with a good mate some days before. At the 6. of June, there was only one German tank division in reach (the 21. . And because of the confusing chain of command, these tanks got the order to counter attack in the early afternoon, way too late of course.
But even when getting commanded to attack earlier, the devastating allied air superiority would still be a hard problem for these tanks. And don't forget about the Allied ship- artillery that fired amazingly accurate. So, in my opinion, only this one division wouldn't be enough to drive the Allies back into the sea, but the landing would have been a lot more bloody.
8) What I do often ask myself, why did Hitler built an alliance with Italy? Germany didn't have any favours from it.
Because of the rushed Italian attack on Greece and Serbia, Germany got forced to interfere in the Balkan, although that was never planned at all.
Later, the awful course of the Italian campaign in North Africa forced the Germans to send military aid again, to prevent the Brits from completey throwing the Italians from the continent.
So in the end, the Germans only had to pay for this alliance and I can't see any good points about it at all.
8) What I do often ask myself, why did Hitler built an alliance with Italy? Germany didn't have any favours from it.
Because of the rushed Italian attack on Greece and Serbia, Germany got forced to interfere in the Balkan, although that was never planned at all.
Later, the awful course of the Italian campaign in North Africa forced the Germans to send military aid again, to prevent the Brits from completey throwing the Italians from the continent.
So in the end, the Germans only had to pay for this alliance and I can't see any good points about it at all.
Basically, at first Italy was opposed to Germany and their expansion. They were preparing for war in Austria should it come to it, but then started to get heat for a war of theirs elsewhere (forgot the name... ) from the League of Nations (basically the UN).
When that happened, only Germany supported Italy so the alliance formed out of this and soon Germany and Italy were allies.
I don't think Germany knew Italy was going to suck balls in the war though.
It seems as if most of your points have been answered already, but just to add to some points, in hope to help you with your essay;
2) Never have invaded the Soviet Union
First of all, Germany and the Soviet Union both invaded Poland during 1939 and pretty much chopped the country in half. The Soviet Union taking one side and the Germans taking the other. So to speak.
The 'Motherland' and 'Fatherland' are just as bad as one another in my opinion and soon enough, like a married couple, they would have had an argument somewhere along the lines...
They could have adjoined forces properly, forged an alliance, but Germany felt threatened and although the Eastern Front was a brutal battle, I still to this day think Germany could have won it, IF their resources weren't pumped else-where during the war. I.E: Normandy.
So you had "Penal Companies" sent to the Eastern Front to do the fighting. Penal Companies are regiments made up of convicts and men who done wrong during their service, such as treason or the likes. So serving on the Eastern Front was both a punishment and way for the men to redeem themselves, now you can imagine what sort of fighting force you'd have, sending a bunch of convicts and men who potentially have no rank (not even private) to fight for their country?
Their efforts were shoddy and to be honest, a majority of them didn't care, all they cared about was surviving and going home. Sure, you had some who did want to redeem themselves, but in general, Germany sent their worse companies over to the Eastern Front and hardly any resources were pumped into that part of the war.
Men starved, froze, ran out of ammunition and hell, this is why they got bombarded by the Russians, who could pump all their resources onto one frontline and one direction in the war. Whereas Germany was countering a dozen different ways to attack and defend.
If, just if Germany took one step at a time and perhaps re-thought their actions, they could have easily pulled it off, I'm sure.
6) At the Battle of Dunkirk, Hitler should have unleashed his Panzer Units while the Allies were retreating to the sea.
Hitler made a very daring move, the French military was considered amongst the most superb during this point of the war (beginning) and the strongest Allied force in Europe. How wrong everyone was...
During the battles leading up to Dunkirk, the French did fall pretty quickly, but in my personal opinion, Britain didn't have any wrong doing that lead to Dunkirk - not entirely anyhow.
The French were given command of the British forces, known as the "British expeditionary force/s", where Britain sent aid in form of infantry/tanks over to France to help defend against the threat of the Nazis. Now, sure, Britian did control their troops, but they were placed under French command in regards to "where" the men were placed to hold the line and so forth...
What the French also done, was use the British troops to compensate for their own troops. In other words, the French pulled their troops off the frontlines and replaced them with the British troops.
I've read plenty of books regarding Dunkirk and if I'm honest, the British soldier fought more valiantly than any Frenchman could. Even when the British were pushed back to Dunkirk, a lot of men volunteered to stay back and hold the Nazis off for as long as possble, whilst thousands of British soldiers attempted to get home by any means possible.
Now, Hitler could have sent his tanks down to do the job, but opposed against a nation who're already surrendering and a minor force of British Expeditonary Forces, against entire German Regiments, the waste of fuel and armour didn't seem necessary to Hitler. Although, the British soldiers did put up a tough fight and perhaps he should have considered bringing the tanks down to swoop through... He under-estimated the enemy...
Post by SGT. Brian Baker on Nov 19, 2009 16:02:41 GMT
Alright, here's my essay. There is a book written by Bevin Alexander called "How Hitler Could have Won World War II" or something like that
Could Nazi Germany have Prolonged World War II?
From 1939 to 1945, the world was besieged by the Axis Powers (Germany, Italy, and Japan) and the Allies (Great Britain, the United States, Russia, and France). People were still recovering from the First World War and believed that a second war was not going to happen. After the First World war, Germany was forced to pay high reparations for the damage that their initiative caused the world. A young Adolf Hitler was outraged at the shame that was brought to the German people. He became obsessed with proving to the world that Germany was a massive power that should rule as imperialists. Hitler’s obsession with gaining incredible power as fast as he could, and the paranoia over his own people ultimately destroyed a nation he worked so hard to bring pride to. His greatest military blunders involved the countries of Great Britain, Russia, and the events surrounding the D-Day invasion.
In June, 1940, the Germans missed two key opportunities to defeat Great Britain. The first opportunity was when the British Forces stationed in France at the time of the German invasion were evacuating the area, but were held up at Dunkirk, thus making a still target (Mistakes of World War 2). The British had about 338,000 troops waiting to be evacuated from Dunkirk, which would prove to be a rather lengthy process, not to mention they were being constantly bombed by the German Luftwaffe (air force). As the German tanks and infantry drew closer to the beaches of Dunkirk and the fate of Britain was becoming dark, Hitler ordered his forces to stop. He never told anyone why he made that order, but some believe that Herman Goering, Hitler’s political deputy and commander of the Air Force, assured Hitler that the bombers could get the job done (Mistakes of World War 2). Whether Goering or Hitler was at fault was unclear, but the Luftwaffe was not successful. Three months later on July 16, 1940, Hitler ordered Operation Sea Lion; phase one of the cross-channel invasion into Great Britain (Swantson 66). The Luftwaffe was ordered to destroy Britain’s Air Force, which would allow the German troop transports to cross the English Channel easier. Even though the Luftwaffe was recovering from the French Campaign, they still had 2,669 aircraft, 993 of them were single engine fighters, 375 were twin engine fighters protecting a force of about 1,015 bombers and 346 dive bombers (Swantson). Also, the Luftwaffe was not prepared for long-range operations; they were more prepared for supporting ground troops (Swantson 68). Their fighter escort had limited range and could only escort the bombers for about 20 minutes over England before they had to break formation (Swantson). This left the German bombers at the disposal of the British fighters and anti-aircraft batteries. As the operation continued, the Germans were getting closer to defeating Britain’s Air Force, until Hitler changed the objective. He had ordered the Luftwaffe to bomb British cities because Britain had bombed Berlin. Britain bombed Berlin because on August 24th, “ten German bombers lost their way and dropped their loads on Central London. RAF Bomber Command launched a reprisal raid on Berlin the next night with eighty bombers- the first time the German capital had been hit.” (Alexander 41). Hitler was enraged with the attacks and diverted all strikes against military targets and ordered an all out attack on British cities (Alexander). Now, if Hitler had allowed the Luftwaffe to continue their attacks on the sector stations, Operation Sea Lion could have been carried out and Hitler could have ended the war (Alexander).
“The purpose of military strategy is to diminish the possibility of resistance. It should be the aim of every leader to discover the weaknesses of the enemy and to pierce his Achilles’ heel. This is how battles and wars are best won” (Alexander 81). This quote means that every leader should aim for their enemy’s weaknesses, whether it is resources or strategic targets, and that is what would make a war easier to be won. For Nazi Germany, however, this wasn’t the case. Operation Barbarossa was launched on June 22, 1941, the invasion of the Soviet Union. The invasion was probably Germany’s greatest mistake of the war for several reasons. First, the Germans made a head on attack on Soviet Russia, which came with the greatest resistance amongst the Soviet Forces, not the weakest as Hitler predicted (Alexander). Also, with a direct attack, the enemy was allowed to move back their reserves and supplies, in doing so, lengthen the attacker’s supply and reinforcement lines (Alexander). If the Germans attacked the flank of the enemy and separated the enemy from their supplies and reserves, then it could have made capturing Russia an easier task. According to the author of “How Hitler Could Have Won World War II”, Hitler never should have gone into Russia as a conqueror, but as a liberator. For two decades, the Soviet people had suffered under Communist rule. When the Communists forced people off their land to create collective farms, millions had died. “Millions more were obliged to move greater distances and work long hours under terrible conditions in factories and construction projects” (Alexander, 81-82). When there was resistance under the Communist rule, the secret police killed people or sent them to prison gulags in Siberia (Alexander 82). In the 1930’s, Joseph Stalin had killed all leaders and military officers because he thought they were all out to get him but in reality, were not a threat to his dictatorship (Alexander). Had the German armies promised freedom and the elimination of the Soviet oppression, the citizens of Russia would have risen in rebellion and ousted the entity of the Soviet Union (Alexander). As Bevin Alexander states, “Great generals don’t win wars in this fashion. They don’t depend upon their enemies to make mistakes or give up. A great general relies upon his own ideas, initiative, skill, and maneuvers to put the enemy in a position where he must do the general’s bidding. A great general wins his battles before he fights them. He obligates the enemy to take positions he cannot defend or from which he cannot extricate himself” (Alexander 83). Hitler’s paranoia prevented this level of military greatness.
Russia could have been conquered by Germany, had it not been for Hitler’s greatest strategic mistake of the war. Instead of focusing on one, single decisive goal, he wanted to gain three difficult objectives, all at the same time (Alexander 83). These objectives included the capture of Leningrad because it was the birthplace of Russian Communism and to capture the Ukraine and the Caucasus regions for the amount of food they provided, these places held about 60 percent of Soviet industry, and held the bulk of the Soviet oil supply. Then there was the final objective, Moscow, because it was the capital of the Soviet Union (Alexander). Germany, however, didn’t have the resources to capture all three of these objectives at once. One of the reasons was that they were fighting a second front against the British and French, which required resources to be spread out over all of Europe. Hitler ignored his general’s pleas for a single drive on Moscow, and sent Army Group North commanded by Wilhelm von Leeb with one Panzer group under Erich Hoepner with the objective of driving through from East Prussia through the Baltic States to Leningrad (Alexander 85-86). Army Group Center under Fedor von Bock and two Panzer groups under Heinz Guderian and Hermann Hoth to take Moscow (Alexander). They would attack north of the Pripet Marshes, a swampy region of 220 miles wide and 120 miles deep and was 170 miles east of Warsaw, dividing the front in half (Alexander). “Bock’s armies, led by the Panzers, were to advance from East Prussia and the German Russian Frontier along the Bug River to Smolensk” (Alexander). Finally, Gerd von Runstedt’s Army Group South, with the last Panzer group under Ewald von Kleist, was to thrust through the Pripet Marshes toward the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, and then drive to the industrial Donetz river basin (Alexander). With Hitler devoting resources that were crucial to the Nazi war effort on a second front with impossible tasks, this ensured Nazi Germany’s defeat.
On June 6th, 1944, when the Allies began their invasion of France, Adolf Hitler made many mistakes in the German defense of France. One of the mistakes was that Hitler believed the Allies would invade at the Pas-de-Calais, closer to Great Britain. The Allies had deceived the Germans into thinking that an actual invasion would take place, thereby, creating an army with fake tanks, planes, and troops (D-Day Deception: “Fortitude South”). Another mistake that the German military made was that General Jodl believed that it would take the Allies about a week to put three divisions into France, but the Americans accomplished this task at Utah Beach in one day, taking the Axis Powers by great surprise (Bard, D-Day). On D-Day, there was also poor communication between Germany’s higher ranking military officials to the point that they didn’t know where the Allies were. One of the biggest mistakes Hitler made during D-Day was he mistrusted his generals. He believed that they were all out to get him. An example of this is how Hitler would not allow any decisions to be made by his Generals in the event he was inaccessible. Gerd von Runstedt ordered two tank divisions to Normandy, but requested Jodl’s approval first; unfortunately, Jodl told him Hitler would have to give the order, but he was sleeping. Hitler ordered his men not to disturb him under any circumstances and since he slept in that day, the tanks were not allowed to move into position to take on the offensive. Another mistake that the Germans made was not having more experienced troops at Normandy. They either had their more experienced troops in reserve or deployed them elsewhere. Most of the troops there were Prisoners of War (POWs) from conquered territories throughout Europe. They felt no motivation to fight for Hitler and were no match for the well trained Allied troops (Bard, D-Day). If Hitler had given his generals what they needed, then the outcome of the invasion may have been different.
With these mistakes made by the Germans, this ensured their defeat. As a military general, one must have confidence in their cause, trust in your command, and knowledge of militaristic tactics. At the beginning, Hitler had full confidence that he could bring Germany back up to its feet. As the war progressed on, he began dismissing his own generals for fear that they were out to get him. One of his biggest mistakes of the war was taking control over key battles. He set objectives that were unrealistic and cost Germany vast amounts of resources and men. Had he destroyed Great Britain when they were on their knees at Dunkirk, when their air force was about to be destroyed, had he gone into Russia as a liberator and had one objective of the campaign, and had he allowed his generals control of Normandy during the D-Day invasion, then the Germans could have prolonged the war. If the war was prolonged, could the Axis Powers defeat the Allies? Would we be speaking German today?
Just a note to you guys, if this is too cluttered for you to read and would rather have the Microsoft word version, just PM me and I can email you the version.
Post by Joshua Kennedy on Nov 20, 2009 2:14:00 GMT
Attila, the "no-one-step backward" deal wasn't Hitler, it was Stalin who made that.
More on the topic, Hitler could have made the war longer by letting his generals use certain power independently, instead of him being the first, last and only power source for the German war effort.
“No Mission Too Difficult, No Sacrifice Too Great—Duty First”
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Post by ∬: Erik Schneider on Nov 20, 2009 2:22:52 GMT
Joshua, although Stalin is the one who said "not one step backward", Hitler incorporated similar tactics during the Eastern campaign. I believe he responded to Stalin's "not one step back" order with a "Never retreat" order.
As Werner/Anday said, this lead to many unnecessary pockets during the war.
1. Hitler should not have taken the advice of a fatass in the Luftwaffe on land battle decisions, such as at Dunkirk. Goering was a dumbass anyways.
2. He opened up way too many fronts. He chould have stuck with taking Poland, and his attempts on the Soviet Union, or stuck with occupying France, and preparations for invading England. One or the other... (Personally I would have stuck with taking on the Communists. He might have done it, if he had help from the Japanese, who could have laid off the attack on pearl hardbor in favor of attacking the Russians. Then the Russians would have had to fight a two-front war.)
3. He should have used labor from the women to more effeciency in Germany.
4. He could have had a stronger navy, and an even more powerful U-boat force. If he had these, added to a few more thousand men at Normandy, could have repelled the Allies.
5. He should have perfected the Luftwaffe, and the equipment involved. Maybe done away with two-engine bombers, and built something sturdy with four. Perfected the flaws of the fighter planes.
2. He opened up way too many fronts. He chould have stuck with taking Poland, and his attempts on the Soviet Union, or stuck with occupying France, and preparations for invading England. One or the other... (Personally I would have stuck with taking on the Communists. He might have done it, if he had help from the Japanese, who could have laid off the attack on pearl hardbor in favor of attacking the Russians. Then the Russians would have had to fight a two-front war.)
The North African front was popped on him, to put more pressure on his war. The Western Europe front was obviously going relatively successfully. The Eastern front is what seemed to screw him over. Personally, I would have stuck with focusing on the Western fronts and not even attacked Russia. Russia would be way too weak to strike Germany and would need maybe 2-3 years in order to build up a suitable force. At least, that's in my opinion.
Anyway, occupying France and reinforcing North Africa to the fullest would have been a good option. Better option would be to not let the Italians make the choices in Africa... even if they controlled it. Yeah, kind of impossible. But it's sad that the Italian Marshall was too fearful of the Brits in the Egypt (which he could have easily crushed) that he lost in Africa. The Italian force outnumbered the British force in Africa 3 to 1. Instead, the British went on an offensive that completely obliterated the Italian army in Africa. If Africa was secured in '40, even better. If not...
Occupying France and then striking on Britain would be my main priority. Attacking strategic points to beat away at the RAF and Britain's defense, before striking. If you managed to secure Britain, then America wouldn't be able to attack Germany well. If the Japanese foolishly attacked America before the successful invasion of Britain, well... I would drop that alliance. So if Britain was successfully invaded, Africa would probably fall as well. Sure, what was left of the Allies there might still fight... but if they lost their homeland they're screwed unless somehow reinforced?
After Britain and the rest of Western Europe was secured, you would be free to focus on the East. So, that's just me, but I think Operation Barbarossa was declared prematurely (and if not, just poorly executed) and the main focus should have been on Britain.
Post by lisawieserman1941 on Nov 21, 2009 20:39:21 GMT
And of course Germany was racing in atomic research. If they discovered the hell bomb before the Americans, the tide would had certainly turned. And I read of jets being manufactured but still on the drawing board, but by then the skies were dominated by the allies.
Post by ∬: Erik Schneider on Nov 21, 2009 21:09:32 GMT
Of course. If the Germans had been able to create the atomic bomb first, they could have wreaked havoc on the world with their jet bombers. It's frightening what they would have done with the bombs.