No Way Out

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

No. of Players (Allied/Axis): 2 vs 2
Introductory Posts (Neutral/Hostile): Neutral
Location (Board and Sub-Board): Belgium, Ardennes Forest
Time of Day (24 Hour Clock): 0600
Current Weather Conditions: Low visibility, light snow
Map: Click Here

NOTE: I have a second map template without the labels for character/npc placement and movement.

Units
Allied
Normal Units (Private and Corporal NPC’s): 0
Special Units (All other NPC’s): 0
Light Vehicles: 0
Armoured Vehicles: 0
Planes: 0
Axis
Normal Units (Private and Corporal NPC’s): 0
Special Units (All other NPC’s): 0
Light Vehicles: 0
Armoured Vehicles: 0
Planes: 0
Estimated Difficulty (Beginner, Normal, Veteran, Expert): Normal/Veteran
Notes: The scenario is that I have five wounded soldiers (completely incapable of fighting or doing anything other than laying down) who have been left waiting for an evacuation truck, when suddenly the Germans stumble into my casualty collection post and try to have a go with us. This is where a second ally comes in, preferably one who has a squad to provide security.

We could also make this a timed event to where the mod can decide if we've held out long enough and the truck arrives, we hop in and escape, or if the Axis run us over, might make for some thrilling action having to hold out, etc.

So, I figure a two on two, bring what you want minus vehicles and aircraft. As you can tell by the map, Allies on the left side of the road, Axis to the right.

Hope someone's interested!

[George O'Brian]

I could join in this little party. Or, if you need an axis member, I'll bring Willy along.

Actually, JT, would you like a LEd team-up on this one?

EDIT: Teehee, post #69

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

I could definitely use the help on the Allied side, as I'm just the lone medic tending to casualties.

[Matthaeus Hinrichs]

I have an American Private that could lay down some BAR fire if you'd like.

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

Whatever works, really I'll let you guys decide who wants to be on what team. Seems like we have enough people interested to make it work either way.

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

Hmmm let's see.

Allies: Doc, Matthaeus' Allied character.
Axis: O'Brian's Axis character.

If we could get one more to come aboard as Axis, would this work for you guys? All else false, O'Brain would you be willing to do 2-1?

[PuNk! ™]

May I step in here a moment and prod a few questions before you start this battle?

• Firstly are you going to be hostile in any way during this battle? For instance, shoot a weapon?
  
  
• Secondly

[/b] medical units have very little, if any, training with weaponry and therefore medical units handling weaponry during a hostile situation won't make them effective combat units.

[/li][li] Thirdly[/b] the Geneva Convention does apply on this site and members seen to be shooting unarmed medical units, can find themselves with penalties to pay. This could range from a demotion, loss of CP at the end of the battle or otherwise.

However, the Geneva Convention code of conduct is voided completely if you are armed during a battle. It doesn't matter if you are shooting the weapon or not, simply by being armed, you abandon this treaty.

[/li][li] Fourthly[/b] if you are going into this battle unarmed and abiding by the Geneva Convention rules, then you will not count towards ANY of the unit numbers during this battle, for as long as the opposing team is happy to have unaccounted medical units on the battlefield.

If you pick up a weapon, you are fair game remember and regardless, it doesn't stop the enemy shooting you. If they did, they will face punishment.

So...
I would recommend making this battle a 1 vs 1 (excluding yourself in the numbers here) and going forth. If you make this a 1 vs 2 (excluding yourself in the numbers again) then it will be a huge problem against yourself.
[/li][/ul]

I am happy to allow a small scenario to happen here, with a truck arriving for the wounded. I would recommend PERSONAL MESSAGING me the set number of rounds you wish for the truck to arrive, this means the enemy will not be able to go crazy the round before last and technically in a battle, they wouldn't normally know anyway.

If it's a fair number of rounds in correspondence with the unit numbers of each side, I'll allow your suggestion for the number of rounds.

Lastly, you guys need to do the following things:

• Name how many hostile units each side is willing to bring.
  
• What you wish the battle to be? 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 1. You will not be counted in the numbers remember, so list as appropriate.
  
• PM me the number of rounds you wish the trucks to arrive, once you've negotiated the final numbers for the battle. Not before.
  

After all that said, I will be the mod for this battle.
~Danny[/color]

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

1. I will not. My character’s first priority is to tend to the wounded and help direct those guarding him to cover him while he treats the casualties.

2. I’m aware.

3. This is true, however medics have and do carry weapons for personal defense, and to protect their wounded. But they do not participate in offensive action, both in the modern day and past. Thus, the rifle I carry is on my back at all times as it is only to be used if a German came right up at me, or my wounded.

4. I will be carrying the rifle, but not in an offensive manner. I’ll leave it up to you whether or not I am fair game. I could see so, seeing how I am armed, despite not using it to actually engage the enemy.

If you rule me as an armed combatant then it’d be a 2 vs. 2. If not then a 1 vs. 1 and myself as the medic for the allies. Your call, we can go from there.

[Heiko Alkema]

In regards to the question of whether or not a medic can be armed and remain protected under the Geneva Convention,I did some digging and there is a provision that allows medical staff to carry weapons so long as they are used solely for defence

Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armies in the Field. Geneva, 27 July 1929, Chapter II

Art. 6. Mobile medical formations, that is to say, those which are intended to accompany armies in the field, and the fixed establishments of the medical service shall be respected and protected by the belligerents.

Art 8. The following conditions are not considered to be of such a nature as to deprive a medical formation or
establishment of the protection guaranteed by Article 6:
1. That the personnel of the formation or establishment is armed, and that they use the arms in their own defence or in that of the sick and wounded in charge; [emphasis added]
2. That in the absence of armed orderlies the formation or establishment is protected by a piquet or by sentries;
3. That small arms and ammunition taken from the wounded and sick, which have not yet been transferred to the proper service, are found in the formation or establishment;
4. That personnel and material of the veterinary service are found in the formation or establishment, without forming an integral part of the same.

Full Text

[PuNk! ™]

In regards to the question of whether or not a medic can be armed and remain protected under the Geneva Convention,I did some digging and there is a provision that allows medical staff to carry weapons so long as they are used solely for defence

As far as I was concerned, medical personnel were always unarmed on the battlefield to prevent either hindering injury to themselves by seemingly looking hostile or posing a threat to the enemy.

I can see why they were allowed to defend themselves on the battlefield when challenged personally, but on IO-Verse, medical personnel will always be challenged within a degree that the enemy will be shooting over their heads and making sure the wounded on the battlefield stay dead.

Henceforth meaning, this could possibly cause a loophole for the medical units to be both "hostile" and "unfair game" all at the same time during a battle and this doesn't do the medical units any favours when personally, we're trying to break the barriers on medics not being counted as hostile units during a sign-up thread for any hostile battle.

This will, in all sense of the word, make medical units a potential hostile unit that may have to be considered during sign-up statistics and I'm trying to prevent that as it is.

IF the medic was to be shot at, I can fully understand the self defense protocol that would be undertaken by the medical personnel to stay alive and in my opinion, the enemy would be disregarding the Geneva Convention and rightly so, the medic in question would be defending himself. That's fine, completely understandable.

What I'm more worried about, is that this loophole for protecting the wounded on the battlefield could potentially make the medic a hostile and unfair match for enemy fire. By this, I mean that the medic could run out into "no-man's land" and attend to a wounded party, but could easily come under fire as they're seen to be carrying a weapon or threatening the enemy with it, because they rightfully can protect their wounded. Which makes them unfair game AND hostile within the situation.

I'm in two minds really.
I understand the self defense issue, but it's the defending the wounded and still being under the Geneva Convention rule which bugs me. This means that on IO, a loophole could easily be created where the Medic can be hostile and still remain neutral all at the same time and it pays no dividend to the justice we're attempting to make on their behalf, declaring they're not hostile and shouldn't be accounted for within the sign-up numbers.

So I have two options really in regards to this Geneva Convention act of allowing Medics to be armed and to defend their wounded with a weapon on IO.

1.) Weaponry should be concealed by the person or only carried outwardly on show if an intended purpose of use is in question. I can't promise that the enemy (both NPC and Member) wouldn't see the weaponry as a potential threat and disregard the Red-Cross emblem worn by the medical personnel.

I think that's fair to say.

2.) During any point of the conflict should you have to open fire with your weapon, this can make you fair game. The use of weaponry should be avoided at all costs and only used if you are personally challenged by the enemy; if so, the likelihood of the enemy retaining any respect (if they ever had any) for the Geneva Convention, could be abandoned if hostile actions are performed.

To be honest, if the enemy challenge you in the first place, then they have no respect for the code and will be punished. Giving you full entitlement to defend yourself.



If those two pointers sound fine with you, then we can get this ball on the roll.
~Danny

[Edward"Butcher"McMillan]

If this ends up being a 2v2, I'll be you second Axis member if you'd like. Given that Toniatti is a PFC, we probably won't bring any SNPCs or NPCs...maybe a dog or two if allowed.

-JT

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

I think the second option would work best.

In short, don't shoot a medic unless he opens fire. Even in self defense. As soon as a medic pulls the trigger I'd say he's fair game, because naturally the enemy would should back to defend themselves. If he's just tending to the wounded with a holstered or slung weapon on him, then he's under the Geneva Convention and if shot, it's violated.

I think that'll work out.

So, JT and O'Brian vs. Myself and Matthaeus. Sound good you guys?

[PuNk! ™]

Actually, scrap the options; both apply. If I'm honest, I can't guarantee an enemy NPC won't see the firearm first and emblem later. So just be wary of carrying weaponry on display. Ideally, medics shouldn't be lugging around weapons on the battlefield, that's not their duty after-all.

On a quick second note. If JT joins, then it will technically be "1 Vs 2", not "2 vs 2", so are you sure you wish to accept those terms or keep it "1 Vs 1" against your original opponent? I'm only trying to advise you, the choice is yours. Also, please specify the units you're taking into the battle. No units have been negotiated yet.
~Danny

[T/5. Joseph Shelton]

Well I think we were finishing up negotiating teams, and then we'd deal out what we're bringing. I'm slightly confused, you mean 1 vs 2 because technically I'm a neutral character (medic), therefore Matthaeus would be considered the 1? If so, then it would be 1 vs 2, yes.

Before I forget, I did want to purchase a Corporal as a security detail for my character, but I apparently have -7 points, as opposed to 7, which I should have. Can that be fixed please? I would plan to bring him with me, so it'd be myself and my corporal, and whatever my teammate decides to bring on board.

[Edward"Butcher"McMillan]

CP issues has been handled.

-JT