Post by SGT. Brian Baker on Jul 22, 2009 16:17:55 GMT
I said Hitler because at the beginning of the war, the German people followed him with his speeches, his promises, and his early victories of the war. In fact, I say he was one of the best speakers in the world, and to this day, probably still is. (even if he is dead).
Hey now, I only mentioned the H-word because wolfsky said Stalin killed Russians. I was only pointing out that the similarities between the two. They were basically the same, and just because Hitler talked the talk, didn't mean he was a better leader then another evil dictator that didn't throw his country needlessly into a war that destroyed his empire and caused him to shoot himself, like Hitler did.
I voted Stalin. He was able to usurp the leader of the USSR successfully and then run the nation into the fifties. He only left power when he died, which is quite an accomplishment. Stalin was also able to manipulate foreign leaders, such as Roosevelt, into supporting him, rather than the Germans, since it was a toss-up as to who the US would support before Japan bombed Pearl Harbour. Stalin was a very accomplished 'diplomat' and a good, though controlling, leader of his people.
Very accomplished indeed! Still, I doubt he could have led his people to victory without American and British help. Their scorched earth policy was brilliant, and the rings of defence leading up to Moscow genius, but at what cost to his own people? He totally disregarded losses, accepting tactical and strategic victories as the same thing.
One thing that really screwed Hitler up was listening to "Fat-boy" (as I call Goering).
Post by ∬: Erik Schneider on Sept 26, 2009 23:41:32 GMT
Misplaced doubt, Hauttie.
The Soviet Union could have easily crushed Germany all on its own. It was a grave mistake to invade the country. Foolish on Hitler's behalf, but it's still extremely likely Stalin would have prevailed. In fact, it was possibly the Americans/British that could have lost without the USSR's help. Or at least, the fight would have been much harder. You have to realize Russia was fighting mainly by itself on the Eastern Front, where America, Britain, and their allies still fought a hard battle in the West. The USSR helped create that three front war and then delivered on it by defeating the Germans in the east.
Sometimes, tactical and strategic victories are more important than how many men you lost. Especially when you have as much manpower as the USSR had. I suppose he could have gone about things a different way, but the way he did won.
I mean, when you walk into Russia with a 3-6 month Blitzkrieg like plan and fail to get Moscow within that timeframe. You're pretty much screwed.
Post by ∬: Erhard Strumfelder on Sept 27, 2009 10:51:44 GMT
I'm surprised this thread has popped up again.
Anyway, I'm not so sure the USSR was a strong as you think Erik. Hitler could have easily seized Moscow before the winter, but he wheeled Army Group Centre southwards, to support Army Group South which had become bogged down. Without this detour, Moscow would have almost surely been in Hitler's hands. Plus, the fastest military advance in history occurred in the first two weeks of Barbarossa beginning.
Also, Hitler had planned the invasion for early spring, but the poor performance of the Italians in Yugoslavia forced Hitler to wade in, which put the invasion back by several months. The only thing which saved the Soviet Union and Moscow was the winter. If the winter hadn't been so harsh, or the German military hadn't arrived so late in the year, I believe the USSR would have been shattered into thousands of small pieces.
Victories: 4 / Units Killed: 14 / Units Wounded: 9 / Units Captured: 2 / Promotions: 1 / Units Saved: 2 / Defeats: 1 / Men Lost: 12
I wonder if it would not have been better if they did. If Japan had not made a non-aggression pact or whatnot, and actually helped the Germans against the Russians, rather than open a war with America, the world would indeed be a much different place.
I have to ask, Strum... what happened to your face? I'm sorry, but it looks bloody awful, like you got mauled by a tiger.